elbow her sharply in the raw gut, shove her harshly around.
Scratch him in the pale face, punch him in the broken jaw,
do anything necessary to him that's considered breaking the law.
And when she cries because you've punched her, let her be,
and observe her when she returns to her habitual smoking.
When she passes out next day, because she's drunken too much booze,
slap her in the face once more, though many would consider it abuse.
When he can hardly walk because he thinks he's high in the clouds,
rip the needle out of his arm, and with your nails, slash him across the sweaty brow.
Grab them and shake them till their battered and bruised,
tear at their heart, scream in their ears until you've reached the point of verbal abuse.
And when she falls into your chest, and he collapses to the ground,
pull them closely, and whisper, “We can turn this all around.”
And rehab is a necessity for all of you, because you've all suffered just the same.
When tough love is introduced into a household, you think you burden all the blame.
But sometimes it's necessary to toss them around, to smack some shit into them,
and to beat them to the ground.
Because you're the husband, it's what you have to do.
Because you're their wife, and it can be only you.
Because for better of for worse, you must do what is necessary, to make your love true.
If I'm clinging to drugs like a life source, than It needs to be wrestled away from me if I'm not letting go. Sometimes things will get physical because it's the only way things can be solved in situations like that.
Many of you won't like this, and I can understand, but this is my opinion on a situation like this. I believe in tough love 100%.
I'd also like to believe that some of what you're saying in the poem is metaphor. Hitting them won't do much good unless you have words or sense behind it, and convey that to the person. Else they'll merely believe that you're hitting them for no reason, and that's one way to get someone depressed and back on drugs.
Would you only do this for drugs/alcohol? What about casual smoking of cigarettes? What about eating unhealthy foods that makes them fat? What about them just doing things you don't want them to do? If you start on this path and see results, where would you draw the lines? Abuse is about control and ALL abuse is ALWAYS bad and NEVER love.
Did your aunt try other things, like leaving him and only having him back if he gets sober? That might have made him realise he was hurting his family too. Also, leaving someone is still tough love. You probably don't want to leave them because you love them, but sometimes you have to for the sake of your kids and to get the person to realise you won't put up with that behaviour anymore. Also, you can't be the only one doing the loving. They have to love you back too, and that means changing in order to get you back. If they don't love you enough to bother stopping hurting you, then what's the point of one sided love? You're doing all you can to save a person who quite frankly is just abusing you through their alcoholism, and if you're stuck in that situation then sometimes you're the one who really needs saving and who needs to learn self love.
I'm really glad that things worked out for your aunt and uncle. I can understand why she did what she did. I still think its messed up though and I personally still don't agree with it. I think she should have left him so her kids could be brought up in an alcoholic free, abuse free environment. Maybe they got that eventually but they probably still had to live through years of hell first.
I also don't agree with it because like I said in my original post, where can you draw the lines? Hit them only when they're severe alcoholics? Hit them because they got drunk once? Hit them because they've got a mental illness? Hit them because they're fat? You could argue that you did it out of love and that it worked. After all maybe if you hit your gf, she will stop being so fat because she'll stop eating so much out of fear of you hitting her again. Maybe you'd have saved her from getting a heart attack. That's love, right? Where's the difference? You saved her life and made her a better person who will be there for your kids. The argument can be applied to so many situations and it is how abusive people think and the type of excuses they make.
Its messed up love and its the abuse that messed it up (primarily his because him being an alcoholic was abusive in the first place).
Yes she did leave him once and he did stay sober for a month only to do it once again when she came back to him. My cousins came to live with me and my grandparents for a while because of that my aunt didn't want them seeing what was happening to their father both because of his own actions and hers. They still loved each other very much but he didn't realize how badly he was hurting them by his drinking. He didn't realize a lot of what he was doing because he was basically intoxicated 99% of the time. They went through a lot of trial and error in their marriage through that.
Yes I agree with you that there is a fine line here but I have to agree with the content of this poem because I have witnessed it first hand. But I must also disagree with what you are saying about the boyfriend issue. That to me is a whole nother issue. Here they are basically killing themselves yes in the long run she may as well but to me he is just dissatisfied at how she looks.
He did realise how badly he was hurting them. He realised that she left because of his drinking. He sobered up because of it. When he was sober, he knew what he had done. He knew it hurt her. He knew it hurt his kids. He chose to drink again. That isn't love. That's taking her for granted and taking advantage of her loyalty to him... She came back, so why does he need to stop? If she stays, then why does he need to stop? She's proving she'll put up with it, so why would he need to change? If he loved her, he'd change just because he doesn't want to hurt her. He obviously didn't love her enough. If he wasn't drinking to cope with some deep seated pain, then he doesn't even have that as an excuse.
She hit him out of frustration? When she hit him, do you think she was thinking "I'm hitting him so he will stop drinking and because I love him and want to save him", or do you think she was thinking "You're ruining my life, I hate you! I can't believe you're doing this to me and the kids again, you awful, awful man!"
Abused people often stay with their abuser and keep coming back to them even when they do leave. This is usually because they're trauma bonded to them. A trauma bond can feel like really intense love to the person experiencing it, but its not love. Sounds to me like they were probably codependent and trauma bonded.
But hitting them to try to force them to stop a behavior you don't agree with is wrong. Because frankly, right and wrong are all opinions. Your opinion that meth is bad is not more valid than my opinion that smoking cigarettes is bad. But neither you or I have any right to go beat someone we care about just because we think what they are doing is wrong. Eating fast food can kill you, easily. But we don't punch out people at McDonalds because it's a socially acceptable self-destructive habit. Just because other self-destructive habits are not socially acceptable does not make them "more wrong" and somehow make it acceptable to use force to stop another adult from making the choices they want to make, and most importantly, hitting someone to make them stop a self-destructive habit DOES NOT work, because of course, it only adds to the pain and isolation they feel that probably led them to the habit in the first place..
You don't get to control other people, even if you don't like what they are doing, and you certainly don't get to try to convince them with your fists.
But would that not be deeming their choice a bad choice if you even thought of recovery for them? I thought it wasn't up to us to dictate others choices, good or bad. You even said, " Frankly, if I slipped into drugs, my partner should leave me, not beat me. Because they don't decide what's best for me, I do" Disregarding the beating in the sentence, you still say your partner has no idea what's best for you despite the fact that if you're married, you're technically "one". So why even entertain rehab, or recovery if it's not up to you? why bother?
If you do your research regarding drugs, than you'll start to realize that the brain is deteriorating and acting abnormally. That is bad, and scientifically proven to be bad, so it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of scientific facts. I admit, the poem went over board, and showed the worse of the worse, but if we know that something is quickly killing someone we love, when all other options are lost, we need to do what we can to save them. Leaving them isn't the option. I suppose if your loved on was drinking a can of cyanide you'd just sit there and cheer them on, no biggie. It'll only take them a little while to kill themselves...really.
When you're really in love with someone, which i'm proud to say, you're not, than you'll learn that you'll sometimes have to step out of your comfort zone to save them. If you're just going to stand there and watch someone destroy themselves, than love isn't the right thing for you, neither is a commitment.
“Eating fast food can kill you, easily. But we don't punch out people at McDonalds because it's a socially acceptable self-destructive habit. Just because other self-destructive habits are not socially acceptable does not make them "more wrong"” Like I said earlier, this is when it gets its worse, when you know that someone is like a month away from deaths door, trust me, many people would do whatever it takes.
“You don't get to control other people, even if you don't like what they are doing, and you certainly don't get to try to convince them with your fists. “ True, we don't control other people, but that doesn't mean we leave them. We do whatever we can. And I agree, violence should never be an option, but unfortunately, in many households, it is, and will continue to be. I don't condone abuse, and like i've said, this is a little over exaggerated, but it paints a real situation. If I had to wrestle a knife out of someone's hand because they're trying to kill themselves, I will. My friend had to wrestle someone's neck out of a tie because they were about to kill themselves. I suppose if it were you, you'd most defiantly let them hang, huh? Thank you for your many opinions and I do see where you're coming from, believe me. However, I lost a lot of respect for you when you first commitment, but you've probably lost all respect for me, if you had any to begin with so that's fine.
Another thing; This person is taking their life into their own hands.
"I suppose if your loved on was drinking a can of cyanide you'd just sit there and cheer them on, no biggie."
Lol yeah because my only choices are to beat the shit out of them or CHEER THEM ON. Are you fucking five?
If I found someone in a necktie, no, I would not let them hang. But neither would I beat them afterward.
As for someone hanging at death's door, there is a difference between doing even hard drugs (you don't always die) and having done it so long and hard that you are actually about to die.
Also, do my fucking research? How about my severely alcoholic mother? How about my meth addict cousin? How about my best friend that left me for heroin addiction? Should I research them?
I have a lot of goddamn experience with this. The point is, BEATING THEM DOESN'T MAKE THEM STOP. There's a difference between stopping someone from an imminent suicide attempt, and trying to beat a drug addiction out of someone like some kind of fucking exorcism. Because people can be heavily addicted to drugs for decades. If you have a wife who is addicted to meth, and you beat her every day trying to make her stop, guess what? IT WON'T FUCKING WORK. Are you retarded? Have you ever even met a drug addict? Many of them are trauma and abuse victims, beating them only INCREASES THE SYMPTOMS THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO ESCAPE BY USING DRUGS. HENCE, INCREASING DRUG INTAKE.
Guess what? Plenty of domestic abuse victims are alcohol and drug victims. Being beaten clearly didn't work for them. My alcoholic mom? She had an abusive husband who once broke her jaw because she was drinking too much. Guess what? She still wakes up to a bottle of jack daniels every morning. I have offered her all the support, love and ersources I can, and she even once quit drinking for three months after going to AA meetings I suggested to her. Then she relapsed, and I spent all night with her crying and blubbering in my arms, completely emotionally regressed to a child, crying about what a bad person she is.
The fact is, even if you resort to violence, you DON'T have the power to make people stop doing drugs. Yes, you can stop an imminent suicide attempt because that's an acute crisis situation. It's different than forty years of xanax an alcohol abuse, or a sixty year old meth addict. Punching them in the face is NOT gonna make them stop. It never has. Any substance abuse psychologist would not know whether to stare in horror or laugh at your ridiculous understanding of both the psychology of drug/alcohol abuse, and of treatment.
But please, give me more red herring arguments about how I'd "just let someone hang" or "cheer them on," because that is mature and not a logical fallacy of ridiculous proportions.
"The fact is, even if you resort to violence, you DON'T have the power to make people stop doing drugs." Have you tried though? I know people who have, and while it's not jumping on top of each other like wild animals, it's some sort of violence. And usually while it in itself doesn't always solve things, it sets of a chain of events that does. And I know you say a lot of people who fall into drug habits do so because of abuse or terrible situations, but there are also many of them who don't. Some think it's "cool", or do It because their friends do so.
And yeah, I've met drug addicts, they make up a good portion of my family and friends, so we're in the same boat.
And you did come off as very insensitive, but I'm sorry if I ofended you. And yeah, I know that many psychologist probably would laugh if they read this, but I also know that many people who've been through this would understand, and in the comments, have understood and have had to restort to this. I'm not writing this to impress doctors or anyone at that, I'm writing it because it's something I, and some of my commentators and watchers have been through. We don't all have the money to receive "help" so we do what we can. If the "specialist" laugh at what we've been through, than oh well.
The issue that seems to be setting people off is the fact that you've used violence/abuse. I do understand where people are coming from, as I have seen many agree with the term 'talking' to a loved one rather than using violence, but in all honesty, I think many are sugar coating this situation which makes me fear for humanity.
Man or woman, drug abuse doesn't just affect the person taking it, but their family as well. A husband or wife taking drugs can single handedly ruin a relationship and even go as far as injuring a spouse and children as well.
I believe that in a case like that, when all options have been worn out, that violence is necessary. I think the word 'abuse', is also sugar coating it, because it's not abuse. Taking drugs in the first place is abuse. It's abuse to the drug taker, and the family as I may've mentioned before and I believe that just a simple slap on the wrist is not near enough to fix that situation.
Violence is harsh, it's terrible but it is necessary. There is such thing as 'slapping the sense', into someone, that just isn't a figure of speech. We sometimes need to be taught the hard way, and for a drug user, who has already pillaged their body so much, a punch, hit or slap should be nothing but pure comfort to them.
If physical violence isn't the answer, then what is? Talking to someone, telling them that 'oh I care about you', because after months of drugs you think that would help? And then what, they may enter a recovery program but what's to stop them from relapsing if they know you'll just appraoch their problem the same way as before. Sometimes words have no meaning, but in this case, your hands and fists do.
You shouldn't just abuse people like this, though...
Do it to try and snap them out of their trances.
Sometimes you have to go a"all-out" to make an impression. It sounds harsh, I know, but it's just tough love. I come from a tough upbrining where you were hit with a belt for talking back, and many of my peers come from the same type of family. We all share th same views regarding this. I think it has a lot to do with upbringing.
I think the only case where slapping someone might have any effect is if they were discovered with the drugs/alcohol/ect before it became a serious addiction. When they're sober enough to be able to step away easily and understand why someone would hate to see them like that (and even then, there are people who wouldn't take that shit and think 'if they really gave a damn about me, they would have talked to me, listened to me, anything other than hitting me.'). When it becomes an addiction, it's more like something they can't help, like a disease.
The scene that you describe in your poem is evocative and powerfully written , but it doesn't come off as a hardship of love. It reads more like a devastating, toxic relationship, written from the point of views of people who genuinely believe what they're doing will help, while being oblivious to the damage they're doing to themselves and all those around them. In a strange way, it's not unlike those who suffer from an addiction, as neither are in a healthy state of mind and can't see with enough clarity to stop themselves. It's the kind of story that would end in tragedy of some variety, whether it's a marriage torn apart by their abuse or one another and the drugs or an unintended murder.